Land of Cyclopes

1. Does the learning allow us to answer for the question what does the happiness and good mean?

2. Do the ramble and travelling can be a way of acquiring the knowledge about the world and the human? And why?

3. What can the contemporary human learn from Odysseus?

4. Do each of us, having the knowledge which Odysseus had, can discover his own Ithaka?- and in this way to realize his dreams and images about life?

5. What does Ithaka symbolize today?

6. Why should every human learn through the whole life?

7. What kind of warning shows the history of Odysseus, who defeated Polyphemus, for the contemporary human?

8. Is the battle a good way of solving problems?

9. What connection has the responsibility and the common sense with travelling?

10.What role did the curse have in the Greek ancient world?

Küklopszok országa

1, Lehetővé teszi-e a tudás a következő kérdés megválaszolását: mit jelent a boldogság és a jóság?

2, Lehet-e az embernek a bolyongás és az utazás a tudás elsajátításának egy módja a világról? Miért?

3, Mit tanulhat a kortárs ember Odüsszeusztól?

4, Mindegyikünknek megvan az a tudásunk, ami Odüsszeusznak, hogy ráleljen a saját Ithakájára, és így módon felismeri az álmát, ill. elképzeli életét?

5, Mit szimbolizál Ithaka?

6, Miért kell mindenkinek egy életen át tanulnia?

7, Mire figyelmezteti a mai embert Odüsszeusz története, aki legyőzte Prométheuszt?

8, A csata jó megoldása a problémáknak?

9, Milyen szerepet tölt be a felelősség és a józanész az utazás során?

10, Milyen szerepet játszott az átok a görög világban?

Trója

A Trója című film levetítése során a gyerekek megoldották a következő feladatokat. A film előtt beszélgettünk Trójáról. Felelevenítettük az 5. osztályban tanultakat, megnéztük térképen, majd következett a film. Mindenki kapott egy szereplőt, akiről minél többet meg kellett tudnia a film és az általam tett kiegészítések alapján.

1. Jellemző tulajdonságok: gyűjtése! Mit tudtál meg róla?

Hektor : 

- apja a trójai király

- herceg, aki megküzd Akhilleusszal, de veszít

- meggyalázza testét Akhilleusz

- 9 napos a temetése

- szerető családapa, gondoskodó férj

- hűséges családjához és országához

Akhilleusz:

-   félisten, harcos, hadvezér, makacs, bátor

-   kegyelmes, ha kell (elengedi Briszéiszt, visszaadja Hektor holttestét Priamosznak)

-   megölte Hektort

-   indulatos természetű

-   legyőzhetetlen

Odüsszeusz:

-   hű barát, akire lehet számítani

-   békítő a felek között

-   leleményes, bölcs ember

-   fortéllyal harcol

-   az ő ötlete volt a faló

Menelaosz:

-   hirtelenharagú, durva, haragtartó

-   magabiztos, kitartó

-   sértett férj, aki kiváló harcos és hadvezér

Agamemnon:

-   a hatalomvágy vezérli

-   türelmetlen, elszánt, elvakult, nem lovagias

-   csak a hatalom érdekli

Párisz:

-   Hektor testvére

-   Elvakítja a szerelem

-   Makacs, kitartó, de a harcban gyáva

-   Apja a trójai király

Briszéisz:

-   Parisz húga, Priamosz lánya

-   Örök szüzességet fogad, Apollónnak szolgál, mint papnő

-   Spártaiak elrabolták

-   Akhilleusz megszereti a lányt

-   Kiáll önmagáért, akaratos, jószívű

Heléna:

-   a leggyönyörűbb nő a világon

-   Menelaosz felesége, aki miatt kitört a trójai háború

-   Fél, hogy miatta százak fognak meghalni

Priamosz:

-   Trója agg királya

-   Hektor és Párisz apja

-   Bölcs és tiszteletre méltó ember

2. Ki melyik táborba tartozik?

1.      Ki melyik táborba tartozik?

2.      Kire gondolok?

Hektor felesége: Andromakhé

Akhilleusz anyja: Thétisz

Akhilleusz legjobb barátja (filmben öccse): Patroklosz

Heléna férje: Menelaosz

3.      Tedd időrendbe!

 1. Apollón megharagudott a Tróját ostromló görögökre, mert Agamemnón megsértette papját, s elrabolta lányát. Apollón ezért dögvészt bocsátott a görög seregre.

 4. Hektor holttestét megcsúfolja Akhilleusz.

 2. Akhilleusz kölcsönadja fegyverzetét barátjának.

 5. A trójaiak 9 napig készülnek vezérük temetésére.

 3. Hektor megöli Patrokloszt.

4.      Melyik hőst találod szimpatikusnak? Miért?

Odüsszeusz, mert okos és logikusan gondolkodik. Békítő a felek között, aki fortéllyal harcol. Az ő ötlete segítette a görögök győzelmét.

Akhilleusz, mert kiváló harcos. Kegyetlen, de megbocsátó.

5.      Válaszd ki azon tulajdonságokat, melyekkel te is szívesen rendelkeznél!

Hűséges, okos, bátor, erős, furfangos, kiváló harcos.

6.      Készíts magadból görög hőst, aki ott volt Trójánál! Te mit tettél ott? (hőstett)

Az egyik hadvezér voltam, aki bevonult seregével Trója alá.

Én faragtam ki a görög táborban a tűznél egy lovat, amiről Odüsszeusznak eszébe jutott a faló csel.

Az egyik íjász voltam a teknős alakzatból, aki százszámra öltem a trójaiakat.

7.      Keress magadnak olyan nevet és jelzőt, ami fennmaradhat az utókornak! Készítsd el névjegykártya formájában!

2.találkozás

Résztöredék az Iliászból:

„20. énekben: Zeusz kihirdeti, hogy minden isten akihez húz, azzal harcoljon. Apollón Aineiászt Akhilleusz ellen küldi. Össze is csapnak. Amikor Poszeidon látja a heves küzdelmet, kiragadja a köd segítségével Aineiászt, mert neki más sorsot szánt Zeusz. Hektort inti Pallasz, de összekerül Akhilleusszal, Apollón ragadja el, s menti meg a trójai életét.  ”

-         Mely isten kinek segít?

Apollón segíti Aineászt, Poszeidon Aineászt, Hektort Pallasz Athéné segíti, Hektort Apollón támogatja

-         Minek az istene?

Apollón – napisten     Poszeidon – tengerek istene       Pallasz Athéné – tudás, bölcsesség Zeusz – főisten    

-         Miért avatkoznak bele a háborúba?

Így szórakoznak, nekik csak egy játék az egész háború. Egymáson így állnak bosszút.

-         Miért irigylik az embert?

Mi, emberek meg tudunk halni, vannak érzéseink, erkölcsi értékeink (mint pl. hűség). Az ember életében minden perc számít, fontos. Tetteinknek súlya van, hiszen kihat egész életünkre.

-         Te kinek a segítségét kérnéd? Miért?

Pallasz Athéné segítségét kérném, mert akkor okos döntéseket tudnék hozni, mint az életemben, mint a háborúval kapcsolatban.

Poszeidonét, mert a hajós közlekedésnél nagyon fontos, hogy jó legyen az időjárás. Ne legyenek viharok!

Zeuszt, mert ő az összes isten felett áll, így ő a leghatalmasabb. A többi neki engedelmeskedik.

-         Mi lenne, ha a mai ember életét is különféle istenek befolyásolnák? Érvelj!

Jó lenne: A döntéshozásban segítenének az istenek, így boldogabb lenne az ember. Kisebb teher lenne a vállán, hiszen nem kellene döntenie semmiről. Mindig megkapná az istenektől, amire vágyik. S még az időjárást is befolyásolnák az istenek.

Rossz lenne: Nem lenne magánéletünk, hiszen mindig mindenbe beleszólnának. Nem hagynának dönteni a saját életünkről. Ha megbántanánk őket, rögtön bosszút állnának. Túlságosan irányíthatatlanná válna a világ.

Készíts saját névjegyet (név, jelző, segítő istened szimbólumával, színes legyen)!

Miután elkészült, lamináljuk!

Szituációs játék

Videón felvéve

2 szereplő: az egyik egy görög isten, aki némán nagytakarít, a másik egy egyszerű halandó, akinek szóban kommentálnia kell a „saját” tetteit. A halandó nem ismeri az istenének a feladatát.

3. találkozás

Hírnév és dicsőség

Szereplők mélyebb megismerése könyv segítségével.

1.      Miért fontosabb az ókori hősöknek a hírnév, dicsőség, mint az élet?

Hogy példakép legyen, csodálják. Hogy a tettére emlékezzenek, kitűnjenek az átlagból.

2.      Mivel lehetett az ókorban hírnevet szerezni?

Győztes háborúval, okos ötlet pl. faló, találmány. Szépséggel, bátorsággal, kegyetlenséggel is. Valamint ha valaki jó hadvezér volt.

3.      Odüsszeusz mivel szerzett hírnevet?

Leleményességével, a trójai faló ötletével.

4.      Akhilleusz mivel szerzett hírnevet?

Erejével, legyőzhetetlenségével, sarka sebezhetőségével.

5.      Hektor mivel szerzett hírnevet?

Erejével, hűségével. Ő a trójai Priamosz király fia.

6.      Heléna mivel szerzett hírnevet?

Szépségével, miatta tört ki a trójai háború, a monda szerint.

7.      Ma mivel lehet?

Jó hanggal, tehetséggel, ismertséggel, reklámmal. Botrányokkal, bűncselekménnyel, csalással, pornóval. Szereplés valóságshowban, sorozatokban.

8.      Miért fontos a hírnév?

Felismernek, szeretnek az emberek és autogramot kérnek. Népszerű leszel, sok pénzed lesz. Növeli az egódat a hírnév. Fennmarad a neved a köztudatban.

9.      Te mit választanál?

Nekem a boldogság és a család fontosabb, mint az, hogy ismerjék a nevem.

4. találkozás

Diplomácia, Odüsszeusz jellegzetesen görög hős

1.      Miben mutatkozik meg Odüsszeusz diplomáciai szerepe?

Meg tudja győzni az ellenfeleket, békítőként lép fel, mindig van valami újító ötlete.

2.      Miért jellegzetes görög hős?

Mert hűséges a hazájához, királyához. Művelt, tiszteli az isteneket. Összetartozik a többi göröggel, már csak a nyelv miatt is.

3.      Mit nevezünk ma diplomáciának?

Országok közötti tárgyalások, szövetségek kötése.

4.      Kit nevezhetünk ma diplomatikusnak?

Aki higgadtan, intelligensen tud kezelni emberek közötti szituációkat.

5.      Ki ma a hős?

Aki fel mer lépni a nép érdekében. Aki igazságosan éli az életét. Aki nemes célért küzd. Akik emberi életeket mentenek.

5. találkozás

Odüsszeusz, mint vállalkozó

1.      Odüsszeusz mire vállalkozik?

A trójai háborúra. Áldozatot vállal hazájáért, országának dicsőséget, hírnevet szerez. Összefog a többi görög városállammal a győzelem reményében.

2.      Mi az ösztönzője?

Bizonyítani akarja az erejét, a népe tiszteletére vágyik és dicsőségre.

3.      Mit akar elérni?

Hazája győztesen kerüljön ki a háborúból.

4.      Mi lesz a vállalkozásának eredménye?

Megnyerik a háborút, győztesen térhetne haza, de 10 évig bolyong a tengeren. Hírnevet szerez a trójai falóval, leleményességével.

5.      Megéri-e neki Trójába menni?

Megéri:         - mert győztesen tér haza

                       - fennmarad a neve

Nem éri meg:          - mert 10 évig bolyong a tengeren

-          20 évig távol van, nem lehet a családjával

6.      Te annak idején mire vállalkoztál volna?

-         háborúban való részvétel

-         harcolni tanítottam volna a többieket

7.      És ma?

-         énekelnék, színészkednék, élsport

-         feltaláló, új épület építése

6. találkozás

A bosszú, mint megoldás

1.      Milyen szerepe van a bosszúnak az eposzban?

A düh kifejezője. Akhilleuszt motiválja, hogy harcoljon a háborúban. Bosszút áll Hektoron, majd meg is gyalázza. Helénát elrabolják, ezért pedig a görögök állnak bosszút. Akhilleusztól elveszik a rabszolganőjét, Briszéiszt, ezért bosszúból nem harcol.

2.      Mit jelent a Talio-elv?

Szemet szemért, fogat fogért. Hektor megölte Akhilleusz legjobb barátját, aki ezért bosszút áll rajta.

3.      Jogos-e a bosszú?

Igen, először jól érezzük magunkat a bosszúállás után, de később úgyis megbánjuk a tettünket. Hektor azt hitte, hogy Akhilleusz, de tévedett. Ezért tehát Akhilleusz nem jogosan áll rajta bosszút.

4.      Ma létezik-e bosszú?

Ma több kisebb bosszú van, aminek a súlya nem olyan nagy, mint régen volt. Ma már nem életet kíván a bosszú. Kivétel 1-2 alvilági eset.

5.      Mi mindenért állnátok bosszút?

Családért, barátokért, önmagunkért vagy ha magánéletedbe betörnek.

Manapság az ember nem gondolkozik bosszúban. Max. nem szólnak egymáshoz, elkerülik egymást, kibeszélik egymást. A bosszúálláshoz kell 1-2 tulajdonság, mint pl. harag, agresszió, indulat, elszántság, gyűlölet, gonoszság.

6.      Szituációs játék: (videófelvétel)

-         Fiatal lány vagy, akit megcsalt a barátja. Ezt onnan tudod, hogy láttad őket a villamosról az utcán kézen fogva. Szenvedsz, kiakadsz, s azon töprengsz, hogy is állj bosszút!

-         Felhívod a barátnődet, akinek elmondod, mi történt. Megbeszéled vele a terveidet! Ő uszít, vagyis tesz rá még egy lapáttal! Neki ugyanis sosem volt szimpatikus a barátod.

-         Este találkozol a hazatérő barátoddal, akivel együtt laktok. Kivered a balhét!

-         Véghez viszed a bosszúálló terved, amiről egy forró kávé mellett mesélsz! Lelkiállapotodról beszélsz.

-         B változat: találkozol a barátoddal és higgadtan megbeszélitek a dolgot!

7. találkozás

A Végzet ereje

1.      Mi a Végzet?

Elkerülhetetlen Sors, bűnhődés, az ember sorsát irányító, befolyásolhatatlan felső erő.

2.      Hiszel a Végzetben?

Igen, mert vannak olyan dolgok, amik akaratunk ellenére is megtörténnek.

Nem, mert pár nappal is, de el tudjuk tolni a dolgot. Változtatni nem tudunk azért rajta.

3.      Vannak-e olyan dolgok, amik meg vannak írva?

Igen, pl. mikor megnyerünk valamit, vagy sikerül eljutnunk valahová, ahol találkozunk más emberekkel. Meg van írva az is, mikor halunk meg.

4.      Ma milyen Sorsszerűségekben hisz az ember?

Álmokban, babonában. Pl. tükör eltörése, fekete macska. De van, aki már beképzeli magának. Ezzel azonban rettegésben tartja saját magát.

5.      Mi a véleményed a horoszkópról?

Hülyeség, mert sosem teljesül. Csak a személyiségjegyek igazak, maximum. Azonban szeretik az emberek elolvasni, mert feldobja őket, megnyugtatja őket, optimisták, várakozóak lesznek.

6.      Mondj Végzetszerű eseményeket!

Pl. zuhanó repülőn ül valaki, aki beletörődik, hogy ez meg volt írva, mert előtte nap ezt álmodta.

8. találkozás

Megtévesztés vagy csel?

1.      Mi a különbség a megtévesztés és a csel között?

Tulajdonképpen semmi, hiszen talán a csel része a megtévesztés.

2.      Mi a csel?

A csel mások rászedése, kieszelt ravasz ötlet, az ellenfél megtévesztésére irányuló mozdulat. Ilyen pl. régen a háborúban, ökölvívásban.

3.      Mi a megtévesztés?

Tévedésbe ejt valakit. Pl. reklámok, média, időjárás-jelentés, pénzügyek – hitel, hamis pénz.

4.      Csalás-e a csel? Indokold!

Pl. egy háborúban, amikor cselt alkalmaznak az megoldás lehet. Ez nem csalás, hiszen a győzelem a cél. A sportban is van csel, ami a győzelem feltétele pl. foci. 

5.      Az Iliászban milyen csellel találkoztál?

A trójai falóval, amit a görögök készítenek, mert nem tudnak bejutni Trója falán. A trójaiak ajándéknak hitték. Elrejtőztek benne a görögök, s éjjel előjöttek. Ekkor már a trójaiak bevontatták a lovat a falon belülre. Így sikerült elfoglalniuk a városállamot.

6.      Tudnál-e még ilyen cseleket mondani a magyar vagy egyetemes történelemből?

A honfoglalás kori hadicselünk, a bekerítő hadművelet. Menekülést színleltünk, majd 2 csapatra bomlottunk, visszakanyarodtunk, s lekaszaboltuk az ellenséget. Az egri ostromnál pl. tüzes kerék, forró szurok, nők is harcoltak. Borogyinonál Napóleon üres várost talált, ráadásul jött a tél.

7.      Találj ki hadicselt, amivel be tudnál venni egy várat!

A mi cselünk

Tény: a várban vannak 20 ezren, fal veszi körül, a falon belül vizes árok van

Mi: nekünk 1000 fős seregünk van, ebből 300 íjász, 200 lovas, 50 tüzér és 445 gyalogos

A támadás időpontja: augusztus 10.

Tartani fog: október 25.

Alagút építése: július 21.

Döglött állat bedobása: július 21.

Comenius vár

Haditerv:

-         Döglött állat bedobása

-         Alagút építése föld alatt a

            Várfalig

-         Berobbantani a falat

-         Álruhában bejut a robbantás

-         előtt 5 emberünk a várba

-         Ők a támadás éjjelén (aug. 10.) kinyitják a kaput

9. találkozás

Achilleusz pajzsa

Elolvasni a forrást az Iliászból!

Megbeszélni!

1.      Mi a célja az embernek a pajzzsal?

Megvédje magát, Akhilleuszt a Végzetszerű haláltól. Teknősbéka alakzatban mást is védenek, s együtt támadni is tudnak.

2.      Ki készíttette a védőfelszerelést Akhilleusznak?

Az anyja, Thétisz istennő.

3.      Kivel készítteti el?

Hephaisztosszal, a sánta kovácsistennel, aki nemcsak pajzsot remekel, de páncélt, sisakot és lábvértet is.

4.      Mi található a pajzson?

-         föld, ég, tenger, nap, csillagok

-         2 szép város

-         Pásztorok nyájjal

-         Puha szántó

-         Búzamező, aratás

-         Szőlőskert, szüret, lantos

-         Egyenes szarvú marhák csapata, oroszlán

-         Legelő juhok

-         Tánctér: körtánc

-         Nagy Okeánosz bő áradata

5.      Mit jelképez a pajzsán található mintasor?

§  föld, ég, tenger, nap, csillagok: isteni szféra

§  2 szép város: talán a görögök és a trójaiak, ellentét van a 2 város között. Az egyikben élet van, lakodalom. A másik város előtt pedig 2 sereg is felsorakozik. Ez a 2 sereg pedig Akhilleusz erejét erősíti. Itt már bizonyos, hogy Trója el fog bukni, a túlerő miatt.

§  Pásztorok nyájjal: ellopják a nyáját, ezért verekedés tör ki. Ez is a háborút jelképezi, a feszültséget a 2 tábor között. Ott is ellopták Helénát. Miatta lett harc. El akarják venni, ami a másiké, birtoklási vágy. Ugyanez jelentkezik Agamemnónnál, hiszen mindenáron Tróját akarja. Az sem érdekli, ha serege odavész.

§  Puha szántó: földszerzés vágya, újabb területek. A mézédes bor pedig a dicsőség jele.

§  Búzamező, aratás: dicsőség learatása, valamint az étel jelképe. Ha étel van, akkor minden van.

§  Szőlőskert, szüret, lantos: ünneplés, betakarítás öröme. A bor istene, Dionüszosz ünneplése, egyben az élet ünneplése.

§  Egyenes szarvú marhák csapata, oroszlán: szintén a háború szimbóluma, ahol az oroszlán a görögök, a kutyák pedig, akik nem mertek beállni a görögökhöz, akik tartottak az összecsapástól. Viszont az oroszlán ereje érvényesül a túlerővel szemben.

§  Legelő juhok: Görögország béke idején. Nincs mitől félni, nyugalom van. Bíznak a sikerben, győzelemben.

§  Tánctér: körtánc: ünneplik a győztes háború végét. A hazatérő katonák, akik házasságra készülnek, hiszen a harcban az ember rádöbben az élet rövidségére, fontosságára. Tiszteli, csodálja őket a tömeg.

§  Nagy Okeánosz bő áradata: bőség, áldás

6.      Készítsük el a pajzsot!

7.      Készíts saját pajzsot! Írj hozzá szövegmagyarázatot!

10. találkozás

Milyen különbség van a mítosz és a valóság között?

1.      Mit nevezünk mítosznak?

Legenda, istenek, félistenek, hősök, kitalált személyek, mitológiai alakok vannak a történetben.

2.      Mi az oka a trójai háborúnak a mítosz szerint?

A mítosz szerint egy nő az oka a háborúnak, akit elraboltak a férjétől. A görögök  pedig vissza akarták szerezni Menelaosz feleségét, Helénát. Parisz, trójai királyfi szerelmes lett a lányba, ezért vitte magával Trójába. Ez lett Trója veszte.

3.      Mi az oka a trójai háborúnak a valóság szerint?

A valóságban a legfőbb ok a területszerzés volt, a birodalom bővítése. Gazdasági okok is közrejátszottak Trója megszerzésében, valamint rabszolgagyűjtés. A királyoknak pedig a hírnév fennmaradása.

4.      Van-e értelme a háborúnak a mítosz szerint? Miért?

A mítosz szerint nincs értelme a háborúnak, hiszen egy nő az oka az egésznek. Bosszúból elpusztítani egy városállamot, túl nagy áldozat – gondoljuk mi.

5.      Van-e értelme a háborúnak a valóság szerint? Miért?

A valóságban van értelme a háborúnak, mert a görögök indítják, és meg is nyerik. Igaz, hogy csellel, de győznek, a Trója pedig eltűnik a Föld színéről.

6.      Te melyik félnek szurkolnál? Miért?

A görögöknek, mert ők furfangosabbak. Velük harcol Akhilleusz, aki a görögök legnagyobb bajnoka. Azonban egy nő miatt nem kellett volna útra kelniük.

In the last term of 2008 ,Chiscani School was involved in a Comenius multilateral partenership project.Our project has begun in September and in Octomber, we had the first project meeting in Hungary .

In November, we start the activities with digital stories and relief .Our children worked toghether in the project.All the team realized that these activities was succesfull,and the children was exciting to discover Odysseus’s Wanderings.

Teachers involved in the project make research studies on Greek legends, myths and  possibilities of eTwinning system . They introduced the methodology of digital storytelling and flash-meeting. The art team worked scenes and moments in the style of ancient vases (free techniques) and prepared pieces of relief made by clay, depicting different moments and heroes of the actual story.

We hope that this project will be a succes!

                                             (Romanian Coordinator: Mihaela Dan)

ODISEEA LA SCOALA CU CLASELE

 I-VIII,CHISCANI

Din august 2008,Scoala cu clasele I-VIII,Chiscani este implicata intr-un proiect de parteneriat multilateral Comenius ,,Odiseea’’alaturi de alte trei scoli din Ungaria,Polonia si Turcia.In cadrul acestui parteneriat a avut loc prima intalnire de proiect in octombrie 2008,in Ungaria .

Incepand din noiembrie 2008,echipele s-au intalnit pe ateliere de lucru avand ca scop realizarea unor obiecte din lut si ipsos infatisand scene din Odiseea-,,Caderea Troiei’’precum si realizarea unor povestiri digitale pe aceeasi tema.

Intreaga echipa de lucru a studiat legendele si miturile grecesti si de asemenea posibilitatile de a posta pe site-ul eTwining activitatile din cadrul proiectului,fapt realizat cu succes inca din noiembrie 2008.

In viitor speram ca acest proiect va fi incununat de succes,dand posibilitatea atat profesorilor cat mai ales elevilor scolii noastre de a se ,,exprima’’in cadrul acestui amplu dialog european.

                                                              (Profesor coordonator:Mihaela Dan)

1. What kind of positive hero did you fin din Trojan War? And why?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

When I showed the film of Troy on the screen, the children solved the following exercises. Before the film we were talking about Troy. We recalled what we learned in the 5th class, than we found it on the map, than came the film. Everybody got a character, of which they should know as much as possible about their actor according to the film and my supplement.

1.      What did you know about them? Collecting the main features!

Hektor:

-         his father is the king of Troy

-         prince, who fights with Akhilleus, but he lost

-         his body was outraged by Akhilleus

-         9 days of his burial

-         He is loving father of the family, providing husband

-         He is faithful to his family and country

Akhilleus:

-         demigod, warrior, general, stubborn, brave

-         he has mercy on everybody, it needed (he lets Briseis go gives back the corpse of Hektor to Priamosz)

-         he killed Hektor

-         he has passionate nature

-         unbeatable

Odüsseus:

-         faithful friend, everybody can count on him

-         he is a conciliater between parties

-         ingenious and wise man

-         he fights with trick

-         his idea was the wooden horse

Menelaos:

-         he is quick tempered, he is rude, unforgiving

-         confident, persevering

-         offended husband, who is excellent warrior and general

Agamemnon:

-         he is guided by domination desire

-         impatient, determined, blinded, isn’t chivalrous

-         he is interested just in domination

Paris:

-         he is the brother of Hektor

-         he is blinded by love

-         stubborn, persevering, but he is coward in the battle

-         his father is the king of Troy

Briseis:

-         she is the sister of Paris and daughter of Priamos

-         she heeds eternal virginity, she serves for Apollon as a priestwoman

-         she was kidnaped by the Spartans

-         Akhilleus falls in love with her

-         She stands up for herself, she is self-willed, kind-hearted

Heléna:

-         she is the most beautiful woman in the world

-         she is the wife of Menelaos, who is responsible for the war of Troy

-         she is afraid that hundrads will die because of her

Priamosz:

-         he is the old king of Troy

-         he is the father of Hektor and Paris

-         wise and respectable man

2. Who belongs to which group?

3. Who is the person I have in mind?

Hektor’s wife: Andromakhe

Akhilleus’s mother: Thetis

The best friend of Akhilleus: Patroklos

Helena’s husband: Menelaos

4. Put them in chronological order!

1. Apollon got angry with the Greeks, who besieged Troy, because Agamemnon offended his priestwoman, and she was kidnaped. That’s why Apollon sent plague to the Greek army.

4. Hektor’s corpse is outraged by Akhilleus.

2. Akhilleus lent his armament to his friend.

5. Troyans prepared 9 days for the burial of their general.

3. Hektor killed Patroklos.

5. Which hero do you find simpatic? Why?

Odüsseus, because he thinks cleverly and logicaly. He is a conciliater between parties, who fights with trick. His idea helped the triumph of Greeks.

Akhlleus, because he is an excellent warrior. He is cruel but forgiving.

6. Choose those features, which you would like to have!

Faithfull, clever, brave, strong, tricky, excellent warrior

7. Make a Greek hero of yourself, who was at Troy! What did you do there?

I was one of the generals, who marched in Troy with their army.

I carved a horse in the Greek camp by the fire. This was what brought the idea of the wooden horse in Odüsseus’s mind.

I was one of the bowers from the turtle formation, who killed the Troys by hundreds.

8. Find yourself a name and a feature, what could survive to the posterity! Do it like a visiting card!

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

The Trojan War was a military conflict from Antiquity in Asia Minor. This war last ten years, many heroes died (Achilles, Patrocles, Antioh, Hector, Paris Etc.)The positive characters are Achilles and Odysseus. To answer the call from Odysseus, Achilles came as a leader for myrmidons. Thetys, his mother tried to fight against destiny but she didn’t succeed. Odysseus has an important role; he is famous for his cleverness, carefulness and beautiful words which he knows to say.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

Among many heroes taking part in the Trojan War, the figure, who can be called a positive hero is Hector.

Hector, is the bravest hero taking part in the Trojan War, the oldest son of Priam and Hecuba, the brother od Paris and Cassandra, the husband of Andromache. During the war he killed Patroclus, thinking he was Achilles, because he had an armour and a shield on him that belonged to brave Achilles. When this Greek warrior heard about his cousin’s death, Patroclus, he wanted to revenge his death and he killed Hector

Hector had an athletic body and he had extremely masculine features of the face. He tried not to indulge emotions. He was honourable and brave, and to this values he remained loyal to the end of his life. He also stood by his family, his wife and his son Astyanax very much. Hector loved his father, Priam, and his homeland –Troy,  and  for them he gave his life.

In our opinion, he is an ideal example of an ideal hero, because he was the figure who stood always by the side of the goodness.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

We found Hector as a positive hero in Trojan War.Because he always thought serviceableness of his country, he dedicated himself in order to protect his public from all kinds of jeopardy,he was a hero who took his decisions logically and he was a great commander.

2.     What if every day live would be guided by Gods? Would it be good? Give details?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

-         Which god helps who?

Apollon helps Aineas, Poseidon helps Aineas, Pallas Athene helps Hektor, Apollon helps Hektor

-         A god of what?

Apollon – god of sun

Zeus – main god

Poseidon – god of the sea

Pallas Athene – god of the knowledge and wisdom

-         Why are they interfere in the war?

They entertain themselves this way, all the war is just a game for them. They revenged on each other.

-         Why are they envy the people?

We (people) can die, we have feelings, moral values (like faithfullness). Every moment is important in human life. Our actions have authority, because they have effect on our whole life.

-         Who’s help would you ask for? Why?

I would ask for Pallas Athene’s help, because than I could cleverly decide, both in my life and in connection with the war.

I would ask for Poseidon, because good weather is important in shipping. May not storms be!

I would choose Zeus, because he stands above the other gods, so he is the bigest. The others obey him.

-         What would happened, if modern people’s life would be influenced by different gods? Please argue!

It would be fine: The gods could help me in the decisions so humans would be happier. There would be less burden on their shoulder, but they would not decide about everything. They would always get what they want. The weather would be influenced by gods.

It would be bad: We wouldn’t have privacy, because gods would always intervene everything. They wouldn’t let us decide about our own life. If we offended them, they would revenge at the moment. The world would become excessivly undirectable.

Situation game

2 characters

one of them is a Greek god, who is cleaning without words, the other is just a simple mortal, who has to comment his own actions. The mortal doesn’t know the exercise of his god.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

People wants to find Gods’ active presence, day by day, they want to live in a fresh, clear and powerful world like at the beginning. Maybe it would be better if the ordinary life would be guided by Gods because, we, all could return to the beginning, to the innocence. Not at all, it seems that at first people lived like Gods, without troubles, sadness or oldness.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

The Greek myths present all the Gods who ruled the world. The Mount Olympus was their home, to which a human didn’t have an access (exept from Sisyphus, because he was their favourite for some time.)

Zeus headed to the rest of the Gods and together with them he controlled the lot of ordinary mortals. What would be if our world was ruled by the Gods? Having read chosen myths we understood that the Gods not always behaved in a way to make people lives better. The Gods were cruel to their subjects many times.  They took care about their needs and not about the lot of the people who sacrificed themselves and built temples to them.

They more often controlled the lot of the human for their entertainment than for his good.

In our opinion, the lot of the human  conducted  by the gods would be much similar to the Odyseuss’s lot, who who went for a journey and probably it wouldn’t be  a smaller epic. The human would need the same bravery and creativity to survive what the  Gods would prepare for him. The Gods helped to some and to some they did just the opposite. They encumbered life. They were immortal, however, they resembled the people. They were as ordinary mortals. They conspired intriques. They felt jealousy or hate and their plans collapsed, people felt their anger very much.

And, however, our lot isn’t headed by the ancient Gods, the legend about Odysseus has a great influence on us. Every nation or the lot of every human is like the wandering, the journey during which many difficulties are met.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

If everyday life would be guided by gods human beings would be the ones who would be affected badly by the conflict among the gods and they would suffer a lot. For example, If god of war would want war and people would be directed to war on the other hand, god of beauty and peace would want to secure peace, this would cause conflict and it would even turn into war of gods. Human Beings couldn’t live their own life and could be directly harmed by this situation. 

3.     Why is fame and honour more important for ancient heroes than life inself?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

Getting to know the characters better with the assistance of the book.

1.      Why is the fame and glory more important than life for ancient heros?

To be a model and to be admired. To be remember his deeds, to stand out of the crowd.

2.      How can one obtain fame in the ancient history?

With victorious war or with clever idea for example wooden horse, invention. With beauty, bravery, cruelty too. Or if somebody was a great general. 

3.      How could Odüsseus obtain fame?

With his ingeniousity, with the idea of wooden horse.

4.      How could Achilleus obtain fame?

With his strenght, unbeatability, vulnerability of his heels.

5.      How could Hektor obtain fame?

With his strenght, faithfulness. He is the son of the king o Troy, Priamos.

6.      How could Helena obtain fame?

With her beauty, she is responsible for the war of Troy – according to the myth.

7.      How can you obtain fame today?

With good voice, talent, celebrity, advertising, scandals, crime, fraud, porno. Acting in reality show sor series.

8.      Why is fame important?

You are recognized, people like you and ask signature from you. You will be popular, you will have a lot of money. Fame grows your ego. Your name survives in the common knowledge.

9.      What would you choose?

To me happyness and family are more important, than being famous.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

Fame and honour are more important for ancient heroes because they were convinced that their fate is in Gods’ hand. Therefore they hadn’t limits, fighting for their purpose without fear, with courage, being models for us. Fame and honour were the most important for them.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

The Antiquity loved life and all of its aspects. It loved the human as he was, the blessed and sinful. It loved him  for himself and the human fascinated it all the time. The life and its perfection, taking advantage of all the sensual blessings which we bring with

For the ancient Greek the life for a fame and glory was more important, but here and now, and not after death. The ancient Greece loved great heroes, winners and it wasn’t interested in the lot of those who lost. That is why the honour and fame was more important than life itself. The figure of Achilles is the good example of it.  The prophecy was connected with his life. He had to live long and happily and to die forgotten or to die very young  and to chalk the glory up.

Achilles didn’t think too much about what he has to choose. The choice was obvious, he started the war against Trojans to gain the fame.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

The most precious thing that the major warriors who dedicated themselves to fight  was their honour.Because they desired to be termed with their fame and honour forever when they were drawn  to close. Besides they preferred to die rather than to be harmed by honour.Because they gave much importance to honour and fame.

4.     How can Odyssey’s diplomatic role be seen?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

1.      What shows Odüsseus’s diplomacy role?

H can convince the opponent, he plays like a consiliater, he has always some innovated idea.

2.      Why is he a typical Greek hero?

Because he is faithful to his country and his king. He is intelligent, he honours the gods. He belongs together with other Greeks, because of the language too.

3.      What is diplomacy today?

Discussion between countries, making alliances.

4.      Who is diplomatic today?

Who can treat calmly, intelligently the situations between people.

5.      Who is hero today?

Who can step up for the people.

Who lives his/her life in justice.

Who fights for noble aim.

Who saves the life of people.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

Odisseus, mythological character, the famous Greek hero, participated in the Trojan War. He was king of Ithaca ,Laertes and Anticleea’s son,married with Penelope, car’s daughter. Odyssey speaks about Odysseus’ wonderings, singing his endurance and diplomacy. His adventures take place far away from civilization. He meets wild pople(Lotofagus),monsters(Cyclops)freakish Gods(Eol),magic Goddness (Circe).

Answer from the Polish pupils:

The main title hero of Odyssey is clever and cunning Odys, the King of Ithaka. The Trojan War has finished and the Greek are coming to their houses, but sometimes, as in the case of Odysseus, it lasts up to ten years. It happens so because of the anger of Poseidon. In the ninth year of his wandering the action of Odyssey starts and lasts about 40 days.In Odyssey the first place is devoted to an ideal cleverness, intelligence or even cunning. The main hero, thanks to the ability of diplomacy and cleverness, can overcome every problem. He is brave, strong but also curious of the world. In his character, differnently as in the case of Achilles, no important change takes place.

Diplomacy, the ability of positive and unbloody solving arguments is always respected. And it was so in the case of the King of Ithaka, to whom this ability gave a great prominence and fame.

The hero, apart from many difficulties, gets up to home of his beloved wife, Penelope. And maybe because of the fact that the most of his problems and obstacles are met during the Wandering, the King of Ithaka could solve them with the help of diplomacy. All The story about Odysseus is optimistic and positive.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

Before Trojan war Odyssey went to Troy City as a diplomat.Morever, when Apollon’s temple was raided,Odyssey was played an important diplomatic role.He brought the priest’s daughter ,who was kidnapped, accompanied by sacrificial animals to be immolated in the honour of Apollon.

5.     Who can we call hero in today’s life?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

1.      What does Odüsseus want to do?

He undertakes the war of Troy. He makes a sacrifice for his native land, he obtains glory, fame for his country. He unites with other town countries in the hope of triumph.

2.      What is his stimulation?

He wants to prove his power. He wishes the respect of his people and the glory.

3.      What does he want to reach?

His native land will be victorious from the war.

4.      What will be the result of his undertaking?

They win the war, they could come home, but he wanders 10 years about the sea. He obtains fame with the wooden horse, and with his ingeniousity.

5.      Is it worth for him to travel in Troy?

It’s worth, because he comes back like a hero. Survives his name.

It isn’t worth, because he wanders around the sea. He is far from his family for 20 years.

6.      What would have you undertaken at that time?

Participation in the war. I would have taught the others for fight.

7.      And today?

I would sing, act, do sport.

Inventor, building a new building.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

For ancient Greeks, a hero is from definition the son of the God’s and mortal person. It seems that a model of hero exists from ancient times. Nowadays, unfortunately there are more false heroes and people don’t know the limits. Today it is possible to be hero if you sacrifice in order to save your fellow and they are called heroes after death.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

A definition of a word „ hero” says that it is a person who was charecterized by a unique mankind,  unusual actions and a sacrifice for other people.

Each era has its own heroes, and even nowadays there are many of them. In our opinion, the hero, is somebody who does something for the good of other people. A good example are our parents who take care after us since our birth, they try to care about our needs. They take a great responsibility to bring us up for a good citizen of our country. The heroes are also the people who died a long time ago in order to allow us to live in a free and independent country now.

The people who with the endangering their lives help people in places where is the war.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

We call hero in today’s life for the people who sacrifice their life for the sake of the other people.

6.     What role did revenge have in this epic? What about nowadays?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

1.      What kind of role does the revenge have in the epic?

It is the expression of the rage. Akhilleus is motivated by fighting int he war. He revenges Hektor, than he outrages too. Helena is kidnaped, that’s why the Greeks take a revenge. The slavewoman, Briseis is taken away from Akhilleus, therefore he doesn’t fight from revenge.

2.      What does Talio-principle mean?

An eye for an eye, tit for tat. Hektor killed the best friend of Akhilleus, who revenges himself on him.

3.      Is the revenge lawful?

Yes, first we feel good after the revenge, but later we regret our action. Hektor had thought that Akhilleus was there, but he was wrong. Therefore Akhilleus don’t revenge himself on him lawful.

4.      Does revenge today?

Today there are much less revenge, which importance is not so big like before. Today the revenge doesn’t take a life. Except 1-2 underworld actions.

5.      What would you revenge yourself on?

Family, friends, ourselves or if they break into your privacy. Nowadays people don’t think in revenge. Max. they don’t talk to each other, they pass each other by they gossip about. Avenging needs 1-2 featchers like rage, agressivity, passion, determinity, hate, wickedness.

6.      situation game (video)

You are a young girl, who was deceived by her friend. You know it, because you have seen them from the tram in the street hand in hand. You suffer, you lost interest, and you meditate ont hat how can you revenge yourself on him.

You call your girlfriend and tell her what happened. You tell her your plans. She incites you also she lays on one more shovel.

Your friend was never attactive for her. You meet your friend in the evening who comes home. You live together. You kick up a row! You carry out your revenge plan, you talk about your state of mind.

B version: you meet your friend and you discuss the thing calmly.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

Odysseus revenge on Penelope’s pretenders .Their attitude makes the hero to ‘’burn’’ and to want revenge. The guilty is punished. Nowadays, revenge is very popular and forgiveness is temporally and superficial. The mistakes are paid ever.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

The revenge has always a destructive power as the lots of the Heroes of Homer’s Iliad show.

Firstly, the desire of the revange was the reason of the war outbreaking between Greeks and Trojans. The jelous husband of beautiful Helen, Menelaus, couldn’t forgive Paris and set off to Troy to revenge the resentful pride. The war resulted in death, pain and suffering to both valour nations.

The second example was Achilles, the great warrior of the envy army Achaeas. He feels a desire for a revenge after the lost of the beloved friend, Patroclus, he decides to revenge his death.  Full of tears he stands to the battle with Hector, his killer. He isn’t scarry of the rival, because he is sure that he will have the victory, and even if he was defeated, he would die in a rightful matter and would give his life away for a friend. After the won battle, he desecrates Hector’s corpse tying it up to the chariot and going around Troy. He decides not to give the Hector’s body to the family depriving him to have a funeral and condemning him to the migration after death. And here it comes to the confrontation between two enemies, Priam, the king of Troy and the great warrior, Achilles. Priam was a powerful ruler, but he was also an unhappy, despairing father who lost the last of his sons. His beloved son fell in the unfair battle because the Gods were propitious for his rival. Priam knows that Achilles has the corpse of his son and he wants to have it back. He decides with endanger his life to go to the rival’s camp and beggs for giving him his son’s corpse. Without the enmity feelings, Priam not only offers a payment for his son’s body, but also in an act of desperation he falls to his feet, kisses his hands, cries and bows. He asks him for a mercy for the sake of his father.

Achilles got very emotional when he heard about his father and when he saw Priam’s unusual devotion and determination. He told his slave women to wash and anoint the hector’s death body and gave it back to the father . Achilles realized that he did a great harm to the old man and how important is the ability of forgiveness.

Today’s world in which we live isn’t so ideal. And it was always. Nothing is only black or white. There are many hues of dullness. Everything depends on the point of view. In every human the good fights with the evil. However, the human’s nature allows the human to defeat the badness in himself and to nurture the good. How many times the revenge, hate and desire to rule is a much more observed element of our life than love. It is fascinating how many young people treat the moral norms with a distance and an ignoration. And to prevent it, we should form the ability to forgive and to climb down over own mistakes.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

Menelaus took his revenge on Paris who kidnapped his wife by setting on fire Troy City. Albeit,this event was just an excuse for Agamemnon who wanted to capture Troy. Furthermore,Odyssey took his revenge on Peramides by blaming him as a traitor and taking his life.Nowadays it is the same for us.People can do everything to take revenge.Many innocent people die because of wars and revenge.(Students were influenced by the war between Israel and Palestine.)

7.     Do you believe in fate? Why?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

1.      What is destiny?

Unavoidable fate, suffering, an upper power what directs the fate of people, it is uninfluencable.

2.      Do you believe in destiny?

Yes, because there are such things that happen in spite of wish.

No, because we can put off the things some days. But we can’t change them.

3.      Are there such things what are written?

Yes, for example when we win something or we succeed come to somewhere, where we meet other people. It is written when we die too.

4.      What kind of fate do people believe in today?

In dreams, superstition, for example breaking the mirror, black cat. But somebody just imagine them to herself/himself. And she holds herself in fear.

5.      What is your opinion about horoscope?

It is stupid, because it never comes true. Only personality featchures are true. People like to listen to it, because they get happier, it can relax them. They will be optimistic and expectant.

6.      Tell me actions about destiny!

For example: somebody is sitting ont he uncontrollable falling plane, who is caring in it, that this was so written, because she/he dreamed it yesterday.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

Why fate was invented? Let’s consider us like simple points taken by the wind of hazard and coincidence. Somebody says that the fate is in your hands. It is like a road, we can go on the left side or on the right side or in the middle.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

The ancient Greeks believed that the lot of the human depends from the fate, a mysterious strenght, which determinates the whole human’s life. In the mythology we read that Moira, the Fate, hang not only over the people but also over the Gods. Together with coming the human to the world , the thread of his life started to unwind and what is interesting it was the thread already existing. It was like unwinding the wool from the ball or reading an already existing book. There wasn’t any escaping from the fate. It had to fulfil and the escape from it was impossible.

The fate hanging over every person and every God can be observed also on Iliad pages. The Gods can take a part in the Trojan War, they can stand by the Trojans or Greeks side, but they do not have any impact on the final lots of the war.  If, accoring to the decree of the fate, Achilles has to be killed in this war, he would be killed and no intervention of his mother, Thetis, would help. She wouldn’t be able to hide him even in the Lycomedes estate in the woman’s dress. She can only help him by giving him the great shield made by Hephaestus.

The whole Trojan War is the result of prophecy and the fate, which this time afflicted Troy. When Hekuba, the wife of the King of Troy, Priam, had to give the birth to the son, she dreamt about giving the birth to a burning sail.  The fortune tellers explained to her that the son that she would give birth to would be the reason of the extermination of the city. And in this situation parents decided to leave the child in the mountains. But shepherds regretted the beautiful infant and took care of him. Paris became a great young man. He was staying in the meadow when Hermes came to him and asked him to solve the dispute of three goddesses: Hera, Athena and Aphrodite about the apple with the writing „For the fairest”. This apple was thrown among them by the Goddess of Disagreement, Eris, when they were playing on the Peleus’s and Thetis’s wedding. Paris had to solve the dispute and the goddesses promised to remunerate him for the verdict favourable for them. Athena wanted to give him a wisdom, Hera- the power, and Aphrodite promised him the most beautiful woman on the Earth, Helen. Paris gave the apple to Aphrodite and said full of happiness that Helen belongs to him. But Helen was married. She was married to the King of Sparta, Menelaus. Paris didn’t mind this at all. He went with a visit to Sparta and he flirted  beautiful Helena and he kidnapped her. They both went to Troy where he was treated as the found princess.

Priam and Hekaba accepted the new daughter-in-law, but in the deep of their hearts they expected unhappiness. They didn’t have to wait long. Menelaus called all the Achaeas to the war expedition against Troy. To the Trojan walls went also Achilles (who according to the fate had to die there), Odys, Nestor, Patroclus- a friend of Achilles and many other Greeks.  The commander of the expedition was Agamemnon, the brother of Menelaus.

The war lasted for 10 years. They fighted everywhere. The heroes fighted toogether, then they rested. Homer described events from the Greek camp but also the mood among Trojans who were sure that their city cannot be conquered because the oracle stated that unless there is a wonderful Athena’s statue, Pallindron, in the inside of the walls, Troy cannot be conquered.. Odysseus, who was cunning, during the night in disguise got to the town and stole the Palindrom from the temple. In spite of tha fact that the statue was stolen, Troy defended very well. But when Hector, the bravest hero, died the hope for the victory wekened in the Trojans ranks. Finally, Troy was conquered and the prophecy fulfilled.

The above stories show how a great influence the fate has on an ancient human’s lot.  And what about a free will? Did really no mythological hero do not want to tell anything abou his fate? These stories shows that the heroes wanted to use their free will in everyday life, they wanted to fight with the fate, to overcome the fate. Grappling with the fate is written in each of the story, and these grapplings are ideal examples of free will of the heroes. Each of them could only wait for the fate to fulfill, but they fought, they wanted to avoid tragedies.

The fate and the free will are the values which are opposite. However, in the life of the mythic heroes both are very important.

And what do we think about a fate? We, the pupils of the Primary School. We hear many times that we have to shape our lives. All the mass medias tell us about the necessity of  shaping our own image, our own life.  We believe in that, that we can do everything that we wish. We buy books which step by step show us how to achieve a success that will be the result of ourselves and only of ourselves. However, in the life of every person there are some moments and situations that can not be expected, they just happened. We do not have an impact on them and in these situations it is very important how we would accept this what the fate would bring to us.  It is vey important to accept even the most difficult aspects of our lives in a way to keep the humanity.

However, there are many things that we have an impact on. And it doesn’t matter whether we believe in a fate or not. We can decide what school we are going to choose, what profession we are going to do or we can decide about having a family. We think that there are many things that depend from us and not from the fate that is written somewhere.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

Yes,we believe in fate.Because people are born in some circumstances(such as father-mother,the country in which they born,the time they born) and they have no claim to choose.They are a component of fate.Moreover,in spite of the fact that people want to get something,they can’t get the oppurtunity to have them and they can’t get in it. Nevermore,people have to put up with bad fare.This shows us that people are born with a definite fate.But,it doesn’t mean that human beings play a defined game that was written beforehand.Fate takes on a shape according to endeavours people do.

8.     Is trick a means of cheeting? What’s the difference between deception and trick?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

1.      What is the difference between deception and trick?

Really nothing, maybe the trick is the part of the deception.

2.      What is the trick?

The trick is when you play others a trick, it’s an artful idea, a movement for decepting the enemy. There was long ago in the war, in boxing.

3.      What is deception?

Somebody is mislead, like advertising, media, weather-forecast, finances-credit, counterfeit money.

4.      Is cheating a trick? Give reasons!

For example in the war, when they apply trick, it can be a solution. This is not cheating, but the aim is the triumph. There is trick in sport too, what is the condition of triumph for example in football.

5.      What kind of trick did you find in the Ilion?

With the wooden horse, what is made by the Greeks, because they can not get in over the wall of Troy. Troyans thought about it as a present. The Greeks híd in it and they came out at night. All this time the Troyans towed it within the walls. So they succeeded in occuping the city.

6.      Could you tell me some other tricks from the Hungarian and universal history?

Our armytrick from the conquest is the surrounding military operation. We pretended escape, than we split to 2 groups, we turned back and slaughtered them. By the siege of Eger there was the fire wheel, fire pitch, women fought too. In Borogyino Napoleon found a leer city, moreover came the winter.

7.      Find out a trick, you can occupy a castle with!

Our trick

Fact: in the castle there are 20 000 persons inside the wall there is a water-ditch.

We have 1000 head army with 300 bowers, 200 riders, 50 artillerymen, 445 foot-soldiers troops.

The time of the attack: 10 August

Holds on till: 25 October

Building of the tunnel: 21 July

Throwing in animal corpses: 21 July

Comenius castle

Plan of campaign:

-         throwing in animal corpses

-         building tunnel under ground to the castlewall

-         explode the wall

-         our 5 soldiers get in the castle in disguise before the explosion

-         they will open the gate at night of the attack

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

No, trick is an artificial thing to realize something. Cheating means a trap, a slyness which gives just troubles. Odysseus appealed to a trick: he order to build a huge wood horse in which the warriors were.

Deception is another thing, it represents cheating somebody’s hope, disillusion, sadness.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

A  trick is a kind of a deception, because its goal is to mislead the other person and it is a conscious action as in the case of a deception.

In our opinion it is diffiucult to find a difference between a deception and a trick, because in the both cases it deals with a conscious misleading of somebody for own advantage.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

Yes.trick is a means of cheeting.Trick means a trap to someone and play sb false.On the other hand,deception is to say something that is not real in spite of its being reality or to say something real in spite of it is not realDeception is made with words but trick needs a special mastermind and ability.

9.     What does the pattern on Achilles’ Shild mean?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

Reading the text from the Ilion! Discuss it!

1.      What is the man’s aim with the shield?

He can save himself, Akhilleus from his destiny of death. In turtle-formation they save other things too, and they can attack together.

2.      Who made the protecting equipment for Akhilleus?

His mother, god Thetis.

3.      Who prepares it for him?

Hephaistos, the limping smithgod, who made not just a shield, but he prepared armour, helmet and footarmour too.

4.      What do you find on the shield?

-         earth, sky, sea, sun, stars

-         2 nice cities

-         shepherd with flock

-         soft plough-land

-         wheatfield, harvest

-         grapegarden, vintage, luter

-         straight-horned cuttle group, lion

-         pastured sheeps

-         dancing place: dancing around

-         the rich deluge of the big Okeanosz

5.      What does the pattern of his shield symbolize?

·        earth, sky, sea, sun, stars: god area

·        2 nice cities: The Troyans and Greeks, there is opposite between the 2 cities. There is life and wedding in one of them. 2 armys stay in front of the other city. This 2 cities give power for Akhilleus’s army. It is sure now that Troy will be dstroyed because of the overpower.

·        shepherd with flock: They steal the flock that’s why the fight brake out. This symbolizes the war too, the tension between 2 camps. Helena was stolen too, the fight broke out because of her. They want to take away, what is other’s, the wish of owning. The same applies by Agamemnon, but he wants Troy at any price. He doesn’t care about his army even if his army destroyes.

·        soft plough-land: obtaining land, newer areas. The honey wine is the simbol of glory.

·        wheatfield, harvest: harvest of the glory, the symbol of food. If you have food, you have everything.

·        grapegarden, vintage, luter: pleasure of celebration and harvest. Celebration of the god of wine, Dionüsos, and celebration of life in one.

·        straight-horned cuttle group, lion: it symbolizes the war where the lion is the Greeks, dogs are who don’t dare join to the Greeks, who fear from the attack. But the power of lion overpower the enemy.

·        pastured sheeps: Greek in peace. There is no fear, just silence. They trust in success, triumph.

·        dancing place: dancing around: they celebrate the end of the winer war. The homecomeing soldiers, who are going to the wedding realize how short life is. The crowd admire and respect them.

·        the rich deluge of the big Okeanosz: Abundance and blessing.

6.      Make our own shield! Write commentary to it!

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

Acilles is the main character of Ilyada .The hero is Tetis and Peleus‘son .At birth his mother knows his destiny but in order to protect him go to the Underworld and bath him in Styx .But his shild remain uncovered by the water. Fate can be won .This pattern means vulnerability, somebody’ weekness.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

An inherent part of an equepment of every knight was absolutely a shield. A description of making an armour and a famous Achilles’s shield is in the XVIII song of Homer’s Iliad epos. Because Patroclus needed an armour and a shield, Achilles decided to borrow him his own. Then Achilles’s mother, Thetis, asked Hephaestus to make a new one for his son. The hero’s shield which was hammered by a divine blacksmith had a gun metal,  a tin, agold and a silver in it. Hephaestus realized his masterly plan without a hand trembling, with a great precision, achieving a great goal.  The reader has a feeling of making the shield on his eyes. Hephaestus was famous for having the ability of putting his life in making objects.

Hephaestus prepared  five circular stabs from various stones, and each of them was decorated with elaborated images. Hammering the shield he carved different pictures by the same time. The scenes from Greeks’ life were predominated, however there were also descriptions of fights. Famous Hephaestus knew that the shield not only had to protect but also to evoke delight by his exterior side. Every stab was distinguished with an intricacy of made carvings.

On one of the stab there was a visible picture of the sky and the sun , the stars, the moon, the Earth and the sea.  There were placed two Greek gardends. In one of them there were preparations to a wedding ceremony ,and in the second, the brave citizens defended their settlement  surrounded by unfavourable armed forces.

The next picture presented the great field where the farmers worked. There was also a painting of a vineyard full of riped grapes on that shield. There were herds of bullocks overseen by the shepherds, and there was a clearing on which pageants of dancers danced.  Among them there was a chorus singer.

The great report from making the shield transmitted also a message about Achilles’s power and position. Only an especial knight could carry the shield which was made up with five heavy, metal stabs.

The perfect shield and the armour which Hephaestus made, were extremely useful during the fight with Hector.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

Achilles’ instruments of war were given privately by the gods and they were so everlasting.This pattern means given by god and very steady.

10.                       What’s the difference between myth and reality?

Answer from the Hungarian pupils:

1.       What do we call myth?

It is a legend, gods, demigods, heros, imagined persons, persons of myth are in thestory.

2.      What is the reason for the Troyan war according to the myth?

According to the myth the reason of the war is a woman, who was kidnaped from her husband. The Greeks wanted to get the wife back from Menelaos, Helena. Paris was in love with her therefore he brought her with himself to Troy. This would the disaster of Troy.

3.      What is the reason for the Troyan war according to the reality?

In the reality the main reason was the obtaining territory to enlarge of the empire. There was agricultural reason too and collecting slaves. For the kings their fame to live on.

4.      What is the sense of the war according to the myth? Why?

There is no sense of the war but the responsible person is a woman. Destroying a city from revenge is too big of a victim – we think.

5.      What is the sense of the war according to the reality? Why?

In reality it makes sense, because Greeks started and they won it too. It is true that they need trick to but they win. Troy is vanished from the face of the Earth.

6.      Which team do you root for? Why?

For Greeks, because they are ingenious. Akhilleus fights with them, who is the biggest champion among Greeks. But because of a woman they didn’t have to travel  there.

Answer from the Romanian pupils:

Myth shows a sacral story, a primordial event from the beginning. Myth tells about a thing was made and it implies a second plan: a hidden reality.

Myths were a source of literature, the interpretation of this depending on different culture and mentality.

Answer from the Polish pupils:

A myth is a fantastic story, a story about Gods, legends, heroes and unnatural events, with the participation of these figures. Myths were aimed at explaining the perennial issues of an existance, world and human, death and life, good and evil.

The main difference between a myth and a reality is the fact that, as a definition says, myths were embelished with imagined details. The reality is the whole of things, matters that really exists. It is an appropriate assesment of life conditions.

Answer from the Turkish pupils:

Myth is the preternatural events that are believed to be lived in the near past by the most of the public.Reality is the situation or the event which is from the true life itself.

Arrivals, accommodation: Romania: Ráckeve, Savoyai kastély) 13.00

Tukey: Budapest, Ferihegy 2B terminal at 15:45 (3:45 pm) flight number is TK1437, Postaközi App.

Poland :  (Budapest Airport Terminal 2A 7:20p.m = 19:20 flight number is: LO 531  Savoyai kastély)

v     20th October, Monday

8.00-9.00 breakfast

9.00: Ráckeve Keve Gallery and Museum

11.15: The headmaster of Hungarian school delivers a speech and  introduces the school

12.30: lunch at the school conteen

13.30: Welcome show organised by pupils

14.45: Project meeting I.

Professional discussion, workshops Modifying activity calendar, results so far, mobility precision

Location: in cultural centre of our village

16.00: André Kertész Museum in Szigetbecse

Visiting famous places in Ráckeve : Savoyai Castle,

18.00: Catholic Church

18.30: dinner: baked or roast chicken

Evening programmes: Choosable!       Aqualand –

Kék Duna Wellness Hotel

Wine district:

v     21th October, Tuesday

7.00- 8.00 breakfast

8.15: Ráckeve Serbian Church

Coming to Szigetbecse

09.15. Project meeting II.

Professional workshops Topic: online interactive communication channels eTwinning, animation, Stop Motion, digital storytelling, flash-meeting

Location:  school in Szigetbecse

11.30. lunch at the school conteen

13.00: Budapest sightseeing –  Buda Castle,

15.00: Matthias Church

Fishermen’s Bastion Gellért Hill – Citadel  by public transports

18.00: danubie Corso – sightseeing Cruises by boat

21.00 dinner Cadran

Evening programmes: Choosable!

v     22th October, Wednesday

07.00-18.00. Visiting one famous place in Hungary:  Szentendre,

Skanzen

Lunch at the city:

Jászárokszállási Fogadó

H-2000 Szentendre, Sztaravodai út, Pf.: 63

15.00: Margit Kovács Museum

16.00: Caprice- Jewell manufacture

Marcipan Museum: Dumtsa J.u.12. Tel: 06-26-311-931 open: 10-18.

Travelling by bus

Departures ( Ro., Pl.)

v     23th, 24th October,

23th.october is a national holyday in Hungary. Wellness-day

Departure: 24th Tu: Budapest

Érkezések:

Ro: Ráckeve, Savoyai kastély) 13.00

    Tu: Budapest, Ferihegy 2B Reptér 15:45 (3:45 pm) repülőgép száma TK1437, Postaközi App.

    Pl. Budapest Ferihegy Reptér Terminal 2A 7:20p.m = 19:20 Repülőgép száma: LO 531, Savoyai kastély

v     Október  20. hétfő

8.00-9.00 reggeli

9.00: Ráckeve Keve Galéria , Árpád Múzeum

11.15: Raffay Béla igazgató úr köszönti a vendégeket, az iskola új részének bemutatása, néhány tanórába való betekintés

12.30: ebéd az iskola ebédlőjében

13.30: Az iskola énekkaros diákjai köszöntik vendégeinket Bőcze Bernadett vezetésével

14.45: Projekt Megbeszélés I.

Professional discussion, workshops Modifying activity calendar, results so far, mobility precision

Location: in cultural centre of our village

16.00: André Kertész Múzeum  Szigetbecsén

Néhány nevezetesség megtekintése Ráckevén : Savoyai Kastély,

18.00: Katolikus templom

18.30: Vacsora az Incsi-Fincsiben

Esti programok, ( választható):

Aqualand

Kék Duna Wellness Hotel

Borkostoló

v     Október  21. kedd

7.00- 8.00 reggeli

8.15: Ráckeve: Szerb templom

Szigetbecse

09.15. Projekt megbeszélés II.

Professional workshops Topic: online interactive communication channels eTwinning, animation, Stop Motion, digital storytelling, flash-meeting

Location:  school in Szigetbecse

11.30. ebéd az iskola ebédlőjében

13.00: városnézés Budapesten tömegközlekedési eszközökkel

–  Budai vár,

15.00: Mátyás templom

Halászbástya, Gellért hegy

18.00: Duna Corso – esti városnézés hajóval

21.00 vacsora a Cadran pizzériában

Esti programok

v     Október  22. szerda

07.00-18.00. Kirándulás Szentendrén busszal

Reggelit a buszon fogyasztjuk el

Skanzen

Ebéd a Skanzenben:

Jászárokszállási Fogadó

15.00: Kovács Margit  Múzeum

16.00: Caprice- Jewell manufaktúra

Marcipán Múzeum

Indulások

Ro.

Pl.

Esti programok: énekel a Dínomdánom Népzenei Együttes

v     Október  23., 24. csütörtök, péntek

Kék Duna Wellness Hotel

Indulás:

24t-én Török vendégek